The approach to making Supposed was similar to that of the first go-round: The two songwriters holed up in Ballard's studio and recorded as they wrote. What did change this time, though, was the lyric content. "I think she wanted to step out from a completely organized format and feel a little more liberated in terms of what she could say," Ballard explains, "and how she could say it. So that was really the only thing that changed. Other than that, the form really followed the function of what she was saying."
Ballard is no newcomer to the music biz. Before Alanis, he penned and produced hits for Wilson Phillips, Michael Jackson, and Jack Wagner, to name three. But he'll be the first to point out that he can go "as far out as you want to go. I've got a pretty diverse musical background; I know how to write a 'hit song' but I'm also a musician, so I enjoy stretching. That's fun. To me, having the opportunity to do as many different things as possible is what keeps me fresh."
Keyboard rolled tape with Glen recently, and quizzed him on his collaboration with Alanis and the ins and outs of the making of her latest smash record. You may be surprised to learn how minimal the production was.
IN THE BEGINNING. . . .
What brought you and Alanis together for Jagged Little Pill?
We met through our mutual publishers, MCA Music Publishing, in February of 1994. She was signed to the Canadian publishing company, and was in Los Angeles for a short period of time. Someone at the publishing company suggested we meet, so we did. We ended up writing a song on the spot, and it was like, "Okay." I loved her voice, and she was very musically and intellectually curious. It was just an instant rapport.
Were you familiar with her previous teen albums?
I wasn't. I didn't know anything about her. She didn't play me anything, so it was basically starting at that moment to try to discover who she was.
So based on the strength of that first session, it was clear to you both that this was a partnership worth pursuing.
No question. We did the song, sat back and listened to it, and we were all pleased. The publishing company was pleased, we were pleased, so we immediately did another one. Then she had to go back to Canada, and our feeling was, "Let's get her back here as soon as possible!"
What were those first two songs?
Neither one is on Jagged Little Pill, but when she came back, the next thing we did was "Ironic." This was in June of '95. So we felt like we were heading in the right direction.
Was there much discussion about what that direction was?
I don't think we discussed it much. We just did it, really. I felt it going a certain way, and I was trying to build it around what she was saying musically, and around her voice. But it was done very quickly and organically. I just felt like it had to be energetic and visceral. It needed to be immediate, because I felt she was tapping into something that had so much power. I didn't want to polish it too beautifully. I just wanted to present it.
At any point during the making of Jagged Little Pill did you have the sense that you were onto something extraordinarily huge?
No. I mean, I felt we were on the verge of being able to present an artist who was making an incredible statement lyrically and musically, but for that to translate into this huge worldwide phenomenon -- we weren't thinking that way. We were just pleased with what we had created. I've made this statement before, but I think it's true: I think that if you're creatively successful, you will usually find an audience for it. That was our goal: to present something that represented her completely. I think we succeeded in that, and lo and behold, people responded to it. But we just hoped to get it signed, really. We just hoped to get it in the marketplace. That was our biggest hope, at that point anyway.
THE SEQUEL
Were there any doubts that you would work with Alanis on the second record?
I don't think so from my standpoint, and I don't think so from hers either. It felt natural. I always told her, "I'm here to serve you in any way I can, so rattle my cage whenever you're ready." And she did. She took some time off between albums, which I thought was an appropriate thing; she had to get away from two years of touring, of being in the white-hot spotlight.
Were there big differences in your approach to the new record compared to Jagged?
It was pretty similar, but I think it was predicated on the fact that she had more to say and wanted to say more. As a result, there are literally more words on this record. On a structural level, I think she was experimenting with lyrical forms, which influenced the musical form. It was less structured in that way. I think she wanted to step out from a completely organized format and feel a little more liberated in terms of what she could say, and how she could say it. So that was really the only thing. Other than that, the form really followed the function of what she was saying.
So there were no preliminary discussions about a sound or overall tone you were going for with this record?
Well, she was constantly saying that she wanted to find new sounds, and I think we did. I think there was more experimenting done, although it was done in the same amount of time: very, very quickly. I think the only direction she gave me was, "Let's not be afraid to go out on a limb a little bit." So it was, "Fine. Let's go!"
CREATION
Take us inside the songwriting process for Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie. How did your collaborations usually begin?
Well, every time we work together, she and I get together, just the two of us in my studio. I usually write with guitar, but on this record I used the keyboard a lot too. Alanis wrote four songs by herself this time based around the keyboard, and so that was a little different process. But when we were writing together, it often started from a harmonic place: a few chord changes, maybe a melodic line. And then I'd just sit and play it over and over while she kind of went into a trance for the lyric side. She would conjure up things, melodies, and things would start to evolve. It all usually happened at the same time.
Were you the one who typically brought the chord progressions to the table?
In many cases, but not always. We were very ruthless. We'd sift through five or ten ideas until one of them got her in the mindframe she wanted to be in. So it was a constant process of running ideas up the flagpole, and whenever she wanted to salute one of them, she saluted it. And that's when I would dig in and try to flesh it out, to give it some form, but it was always based on what she was saying. I was listening to what she was singing and saying at all times.
RECORDING & MIXING
Were there preliminary demo sessions before you officially started making this record?
There were never demos. When we recorded, that's what was going on the album. After we'd gotten 25 things down, we picked 15, took 'em to her band, and they ended up overdubbing on about nine or ten of them. We did it at Royaltone here in L.A., and when they came in, they played to what we'd done already on tape. They were hearing the real lead vocal, and the arrangement was there. Everybody could mix the headphones however they wanted, which was very important. So we recorded them, and then kept only the parts we wanted to keep. In a lot of cases, Shad Scott [programmer] also went in and Pro Tooled the parts.
Describe the studio you recorded in.
Not counting the band overdubs, the whole record was done in my studio, which is a relatively small space. I have a Euphonix console and a bunch of rackmounted keyboards, a lot of guitars, but it's very small and intimate. A lot of natural light gets into the room. It's just a very comfortable, creative environment. (Comment 1)
What's the recording medium?
We recorded to ADATs. I have an analog machine sitting there, but I find it so much easier to get around in the digital world. I mean, I love analog recording, but I tend to use that if I'm cutting a rhythm section and there's not going to be a lot of changes. But when I'm programming a lot of stuff, I prefer to go to ADAT. I think it sounds really good. (Comment 2)
Are there one or two synthesizers that serve as the centerpiece of your studio?
The Roland JV-2080 and the [Korg] TR Trinity rack are my two favorites. Those two . . . you just can't go wrong. They're incredible. (Comment 3)
Did you sequence the majority of your drum and keyboard parts?
Yeah, almost everything I did was sequenced, except I did a [live] keyboard overdub on "Front Row" while we were mixing it. But otherwise it was all recorded into the sequencer.
What sequencer did you use?
I'm still very much a believer in the [Akai] MPC2000, and I also have a Linn 9000, which I love. I have it hooked up to the MPC, because I love the hi-hat on the Linn. It's the most natural-sounding one I've found. But everything is definitely sequenced. With ADATs I like to use beats and bars, and the BRC is driving everything when I'm recording. That way everything relates to the sequence in terms of beats and bars. I always write a chart that has bar numbers, so it's all pretty efficient from a musical standpoint. You know that the second verse is bar 32, for example. It's real easy to navigate and move stuff around that way.
Any computer use at all?
I use both Mac and PC. I prefer Mac, but I'm certainly ready to go either way. The Euphonix is a PC-based system; it's a bunch of computers connected to another computer, but a lot of the software stuff we have is in the Mac. We have [Digidesign] Pro Tools, we have [Opcode] Vision, we have all the software sequencers and plug-ins. All get used from time to time, but for me I don't use them too much. It's usually the Akai or Linn.
INSIDE THE TRACKS
Let's take an inside look at a few of the songs, starting with the opening cut, "Front Row." How many tracks did that song require?
In general, there weren't that many tracks used to make this record. Usually less than 20. "Front Row" was an exception, though, because we had the band overdubs.
There are some interesting effects in the chorus, especially on the background vocals.
We felt that we had so much vocal information there. There's the lead vocal plus the counter line, and we felt like we had to put it in another sonic context to be able to distinguish it. It's something you have to listen to carefully to get all the words of it. I'm not sure what program Chris Fogel [mixdown engineer] used on that, but he did some great effects work.
This song, and many others on the record, use drum loops and sequences. Tell us about your approach to rhythm programming: Is it typically a matter of grabbing loops from CD libraries, or do you usually create things from scratch?
Both. In a lot of cases, like on "Ironic" [from Jagged Little Pill], we created an entire loop from real drums, percussion, and some programming. It took us a couple of days, actually, to get that. In a lot of cases we do that, and in other cases I go to the libraries, but usually just to start it out. And then, a lot of times we recycle it with the [Steinberg] ReCycle program. Shad is good with not only doing that stuff, but also manipulating the live tracks in Pro Tools.
Once you've created your loops with ReCycle or Pro Tools, in what format do you prefer to use them from that point: as samples that get triggered by your sequencer, for example?
Yeah. If it's a ReCycled thing, then you can have more than one component that you trigger as individual drum sounds. In many cases I just toss them into an Akai S3000; I have a bunch of those. Sometimes we have various versions of the loop, and you can manipulate the sound pretty effectively through filters and whatnot. So a lot of times it appears in various forms across the keyboard. One might be a filtered version of it, and so on. You just write the programs in the Akai, and you can have many versions of the loop at your disposal.
In "Baba" there's something that sounds like a guitar feedback burst repeating in the intro and verses.
[He rifles through his track sheets.] We do this stuff so quickly, I have to remind myself. I call that sound "Rusty Hinge," and it's a sample with some synthesis on it. I played guitar on this song, and the band also played on it. I think one of the sounds I used was a sample of a guitar from the 2080.
It blended well with the guitar riff.
That's something I enjoy. I do it a lot with organ, too. I have a lot of organ samples and sounds. When Benmont Tench [Tom Petty's keyboardist] came in to overdub real B-3, he preferred to have that sound in there as he played. I would sketch an organ part and sound, but usually he liked to leave the original part in there. A lot of organ players would say, "Take all that other stuff out," but Benmont always said that he liked having it. It created such an interesting synthesis of sounds between the real organ, which he's a master of, and these other synth sounds.
Is that you playing the main keyboard riff in "Thank You"?
Yeah.
What keyboard was that?
[Flips through track sheets again.] I tell you, this all happens so fast. When she's on fire, which is most of the time, it's all I can do to jot notes. Let's see, the pad on that song is a [Korg] Wavestation patch, there's a synth guitar sound from the 2080, and the piano sound is from the [Ensoniq] MR-Rack. I have a couple of those; there's some cool sounds in it. But this song, short of the drums, is only 14 ADAT tracks.
Great drum loop in that song.
Shad Scott chopped that up. Basically it's a ReCycled job.
Do you remember the source of that loop?
No, I wish I could remember. I have a vast library. I mean, it's a cleared sample, but the interesting thing is what Shad did to it with ReCycle.
"The Couch" has an interesting percussion loop. Are we hearing udu drums? A Korg Wavedrum?
Let's see [references track sheets], this song is only 15 tracks. Yeah, I had some udu samples and some ethnic Indian instruments: some tabla and. . . . I have a huge library of those types of sounds. So that's what those are, and I just dialed them in at different places in the song. I had a programmed kick, snare, and tom part, and I used a Moog bass on that, which I often do. It's a MIDImoog -- the Studio Electronics rack. Incredible. It's my favorite bass ax, without question. I know I used it on much of Jagged Little Pill, and I used it a lot on this record.
There's a wicked deep bass on "Unsent." That must have been the Moog as well.
Probably, 'cause there just isn't anything that's warmer or fatter. [Looks through track sheets.] Let's see, yeah, that's Moog bass.
Back to "The Couch," what did you use to get the analog-sounding synth pads on that song?
I used an MR-Rack sound called "Warm Bath," a Wavestation pad, a 2080, and another MR-Rack pad -- so there were four synths generating those pads. I wanted as much texture as possible. (Comment 4)
Do your synth sounds usually go straight to tape?
Yeah, I never go virtual.
What about processors, though? Do you run the synths through tube preamps or anything like that before they hit tape?
Very often. It depends on the sound, really. I have a TL stereo tube compressor, and I have a couple of LA2As, and I have a Demeter preamp, which I use frequently. I always use it on vocals. (Comment 5) In cases where it seems to help, I'll do that. Sometimes for the attack on certain string samples, for example, giving it a nice bit of compression helps the attack. I try to get it on tape that way if it's appropriate, but the main thing is to try to get good level to tape, and then let Chris Fogel mix it properly.
Speaking of vocals, what mic do you prefer for recording Alanis?
There was one mic I used for the whole record: a vintage AKG C12. I call it "her mic," because I really don't use it on anyone else. It has incredible clarity in the high end and a lot of warmth in the mid and bottom. (Comment 6) It was made around 1955, and it's a treasure.
What size is the room she records in?
It's a small vocal booth. Very small. Remarkably small.
From the C12, what's the signal path?
It goes into the Demeter tube preamp, from there into the LA2A tube limiter/compressor, and then straight to ADAT.
Are most of the delays and reverbs added during mixdown?
Yeah. I mean, Chris Fogel gets a great. . . . Well, what I try to do when I'm recording with Alanis is to try and get stuff on tape with as much level as possible, and give Chris some good clay to work with. Sometimes, because Alanis is like a one-take artist, I might scorch the vocal, or there might be something technically wrong. Like on "You Oughta Know" from Jagged Little Pill, it was a one-take vocal, and at one point there's a little distortion on tape, but it worked. (Comment 7) My only question with her, usually, after she's sung it one time is, "I hope I got that on tape, 'cause it's probably the take." She's the most extraordinary singer.
How much compression do you tend to use when recording her vocals?
I use it lightly. It's just there to keep it in the ballpark. She has such a perfect natural voice, and a good microphone technique too, but since she has a hugely powerful voice, I try to guess how far I can go with the compressor and set the threshold accordingly.
It sounds like you enjoy producing her vocal tracks.
It's the easiest thing in the world. Basically, she sings it and I try to get it on tape. It's that simple. I mean, she's so good . . . the ink isn't even dry on the page, and she goes in there and sings it. And with very few exceptions, that turns out to be the take.
No need to comp vocal passes together, in other words.
Oh God, no. Never. It never comes up. I mean, I do it with other people, but not her.
The song "UR" has a slow, expressive filterswept drum loop in the intro, with other loops being layered in along the way.
That's one of those situations where we have the loop in various forms, spread out all over the keyboard, with filters opened and closed. The layers are kick, snare, hat, and cymbal patterns that I programmed.
What's the breakdown of that song, trackwise?
[References track sheets.] That song is 12 tracks.
Twelve tracks total?
Yeah. That's it, the whole song. I have a stereo loop, which I had spread out all over the keyboard, plus some individual drum samples, my Moog bass, a 2080 organ sound, a Wavestation sound, two acoustic guitars, one electric, a vocal, and a harmonica. This song was done so quickly, like in a couple of hours -- including the writing. So, forgive me for forgetting some of the details. It was just the two of us sitting there, going into a trance, and we just did it.
Were there other people -- programmers, engineers, etc. -- in the studio with you as you were writing and recording?
There's no one around when we're working together. Shad Scott designed a lot of the system for me in conjunction with Chris Fogel, knowing that on the front end he would be helping me with the programming and Chris would be recording the band and mixing it. So I'm sort of in there creating the songs with Alanis. But in terms of when it's actually happening, when she's writing lyrics, she prefers the intimacy of not having anybody else around. That means I'm the guy who gets it all on tape.
What are the components of "I Was Hoping"?
Again this is a very simple song: 18 tracks. I don't do a lot to these things. A lot of it is done on the spot, and if it works, we leave it alone. On this one I had three guitar parts, a string pad, a Wavestation pad. . . .
And there's a hip-hop-like analog synth line running through certain sections.
That was from the Waldorf Pulse.
What did you use for the big low synth hit?
That was a sample with synthesis. I'm trying to remember what the source was for that. My documentation is a bit sketchy in places. I seem to think it was from the Trinity.
MIXING
Was each song mixed immediately following the tracking sessions, or did you mix the entire record later?
It was mixed at the end of the process, after everything was tracked. We did it here in my studio on the Euphonix. We did some preorganizing to decide which track would have the live band overdubs and which would just have the original tracks, and then Chris went to work. He usually spent about a day on each mix.
Were you and Alanis there as he mixed?
We were there at the end. We talked to Chris about what we wanted, and then he did his thing. He certainly has a great feel for her, and for getting the right vocal sound.
You talked earlier about the distorted vocal in "You Oughta Know." This record has a few rough edges in places, as well: the loud buzz throughout "That I Would be Good," for example. Are these things that slipped through the cracks, or were you intentionally unconcerned about imperfections like that?
There's a funny story about that. That's one that the band didn't play on -- it was just me -- and everything was, literally, one take. I was just sitting there tossing that guitar part on tape as she sang the song with me, and, you know . . . 60-cycle hum. I was sitting in the wrong place, and the amp was buzzing. The truth is, it did bother me, and so I replaced that part, trying to make it as exact as the first one. It was just one take, and it's not a perfect guitar performance by any stretch, because I barely knew the song; we wrote it in about an hour. Anyway, she came in after I'd replaced the part and said, "What happened to the original?" I told her the buzz was bothering me, and she said, "No way. We've lost the magic, and you've gotta put it back." So I did. Luckily I never erase anything.
With Alanis, her instincts are so impeccable, and her courage in terms of presenting something honestly is unprecedented. Almost without exception, whenever I put something down and wanted two passes, if she liked what was happening with it, she wouldn't let me change it. It really set a really high standard, and really made me pay attention as a player to try to get it right, yet still feel it. But I don't go back and fix many things. I do on everything else I work on, but not with her [laughs]. That may be part of the magic.
There's no hidden song on this record like there was on Jagged Little Pill.
We ran out of time. At 72-plus minutes, we were approaching the 74-minute wall. You can get it beyond that, but it creates some manufacturing situations. We figured that there was more than enough music on there.
THE ROAD
Alanis is on tour, but how did her touring keyboardist prepare? Did you give him carte blanche to lift samples from your ADATs, for example?
I talked to him, and I ended up having to go back into the studio and sit there with the gear. Then I remembered a lot of it. For some reason when I dial up the program, I can remember, usually. But, no, I gave him as much information as I could about specific sounds, and the rest of it he created by ear. Her live thing is pretty different from the records, usually, and I love the fact that she stretches it like that. She doesn't use sequences or samples or any of that. She just basically plays the songs live. It's not metronomic or sequenced.
WRAP
Any final comments you'd like to share with the Keyboard readers?
All I can tell your readers is that the technology to make records with your keyboards is all right there. It's all about writing great songs and getting great performances, but the technology has made it so you're limited only by your imagination and creativity, or lack thereof. I sat in a room with Alanis, and we essentially created a huge record just by making each other happy. The opportunity to do that is greater than ever before. And with the world of sound you can get from keyboards and guitars now, it's so much fun. In five minutes you can have something sounding really amazing that ten years ago would have taken you days. You've got all the colors imaginable. It used to be, like on computers, you could get 16 colors. Now you can get a million, and you have all of that available sonically with great quality. I mean, with the advent of hard disk recording really being a practical and sonically pleasing thing. . . . Everything is here, and now it's about what you do on the creative side.
In the end, it seems to come down to writing good songs.
That will never change. And the fact that if you've got a band in a room, and it's sounding good, and the song is there, you could put it on anything. You could put it on analog, you could put it on digital, you could put it in Pro Tools, whatever. It's gonna move people, and that's what it's all about. I mean, I'm into quality control, and I'm into making records that sound great, but if what you're doing isn't great to start with, then that's not going to be enough. "